Basically all they tell you is that the gun was an early one and that it either went through rework or someone swapped the lowers. There isn't much of a serial number list for the military thompsons like there is for the colts. They made so many of them and they went so many places that it would be pretty tough to track them.
As for figureing out who built it there were only two places that could have. Savage and Auto Ordnance. If there is no S in the serial number its probably an auto ordnance. Look at all the internal parts and see if they have little aoc stamps. Savage guns will have an S stamp on most of the parts. All in all it doesn't make a lot of difference. Is the gun live and registered or a part set or in a country other than the US?????
Hi All, Thanks for the replies guys. There is a S just forward of the mag well, and on the barel as well. So a Savage gun?
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No S in serial number though. There are two circles with G E G in them forward of the ejector. Plus a large A. The A possibly has another letter preceeding it. Either an l or an F - Its hard to tell although the weapon is in great condition it was not stamped hard. Its a shame no records seem to exist to find out more about how it ended up in the UK. It is not marked with US Govt markings which lend lease weapons were?
It also came from an interesting source, so even more keen to track anything down I can. It is deactivated sadly due to the stupid gun laws here in the not so land of the free. I do get to the US every couple of years to shoot and feed the passion fortunately. Thanks again Frank and Mike MG - your feedback is much appreciated. If anyone else has any thoughts, would welcome them. Best Regards Paul.
The 'A' you can see is probably what remains of 'FJA'. The initials I referenced above were Army Ordnance inspectors. 'GEG' on the other hand are the initials of George E. Goll, a civilian inspector who worked at Savage; he earlier had been an employee of Gen. Thompson's in the 1920s. Some early Savage guns were stamped with 'RLB' rather than 'FJA'. In either case there should be at least faintly visible on the left side of the receiver an Ordnance stamp (crossed cannons on a wheel).
Often that is nearly obliterated when a receiver is sandblasted preparatory to re-parkerizing. There is also a 'U.S. Property' mark on the top of the receiver behind the rear sight but often this also is nearly obliterated in refinishing.
. 20-round stick/box 0.4 lb (0.2 kg) loaded. 30-round stick/box 0.5 lb (0.2 kg) loaded. 50-round 2.6 lb (1.2 kg) loaded. 100-round (M1 and M1A1 models do not accept drum magazines) The Thompson submachine gun is an American, invented by in 1918, that became infamous during the era.
It was a common sight in the media of the time, being used by both law enforcement officers and criminals. The Thompson submachine gun was also known informally as the ' Tommy Gun', ' Annihilator', ' Chicago Typewriter', ' Chicago Piano', ' Chicago Style', ' Chicago Organ Grinder', ' Trench Broom', ' Trench Sweeper', ' The Chopper', and simply ' The Thompson'.
The Thompson was favored by soldiers, criminals, police, and civilians alike for its large, accuracy, and high volume of. It has since gained popularity among civilian collectors for its historical significance. It has had, and continues to have, considerable significance in popular culture, especially in works about the U.S.' S Prohibition era and World War II, and hence is among the best-known firearms in recent history. Although the original fully automatic Thompsons are no longer produced, numerous semi-automatic civilian versions are still being manufactured by Auto Ordnance. These retain a similar appearance to the original models, but they have various modifications in order to comply with.
General John T. Thompson holding an M1921 The Thompson Submachine Gun was developed by General, who originally envisioned an ' to replace the bolt action service rifles then in use. While searching for a way to allow such a weapon to operate safely without the complexity of a or mechanism, Thompson came across a patent issued to in 1915 based on adhesion of inclined metal surfaces under pressure. Thompson found a financial backer, and started the in 1916 for the purpose of developing his 'auto rifle'. It was primarily developed in.
The principal designers were Theodore H. Eickhoff, Oscar V. Payne, and George E.
By late 1917, the limits of the were discovered: rather than working as a locked breech, it functioned as a friction-delayed action. It was found that the only cartridge currently in U.S. Service suitable for use with the lock was the round. Thompson then envisioned a 'one-man, hand-held machine gun' in.45 ACP as a 'trench broom' for use in the ongoing of.
Payne designed the gun itself and its stick and drum magazines. The project was then titled 'Annihilator I' and by 1918, most of the design issues had been resolved. However, the war ended two days before prototypes could be shipped to Europe. At an Auto-Ordnance board meeting in 1919 to discuss the marketing of the 'Annihilator', with the war now over, the weapon was officially renamed the 'Thompson Submachine Gun'. While other weapons had been developed shortly prior with similar objectives in mind, the Thompson was the first weapon to be labeled and marketed as a 'submachine gun'.
Thompson intended the weapon as an automatic 'trench-broom' to sweep enemy troops from the trenches, filling a role for which the (BAR) had been proven ill-suited. This concept had already been developed by troops using their own, the world's first submachine gun, in concert with tactics. Early use.
Thompson Model 1921 with Type C 100-round drum magazine The Thompson first entered production as the M1921. It was available to civilians, although poor sales resulted from the expense of the weapon: the Thompson gun, with one Type XX 20 shot 'stick' magazine, was priced at $200.00 in 1921 (equivalent to $2,744 in 2017).
M1921 Thompsons were sold in small quantities to the (to protect the mail from a spate of robberies) and to the United States Marine Corps. Federal sales were followed by sales to several police departments in the US and minor international sales to various armies and forces, chiefly in and South America. The Marines used their Thompsons in the and in China. It was popular with the Marines as a point-defense weapon for countering ambush by, and led to the organization of four-man with as much firepower as a nine-man rifle. The major complaints against the Thompson were its weight, inaccuracy at ranges over 50 yards (46 m), and the lack of penetrating power of the.45 ACP pistol cartridge.
Some of the first batches of Thompsons were bought in America by agents of the, notably. The first test of a Thompson in Ireland was performed by commander in presence of IRA leader. A total of 653 were purchased, but 495 were seized by US customs authorities in New York in June 1921.
The remainder made their way to the by way of and were used in the last month of the (1919–21). After a truce with the British in July 1921, the IRA imported more Thompsons and they were used in the subsequent (1922–23). They were not found to be very effective in Ireland; the Thompson caused serious casualties (death or serious injury) to those attacked in only 32% of the actions in which it was used. Archetypal gangster image of a Thompson in a violin case The Thompson achieved most of its early notoriety in the hands of and -era, motorized bandits and the lawmen who pursued them, and in films about their exploits, most notably in the. The two Thompson guns used in the massacre, called 'the most famous murder weapons in the world', are still held by the Berrien County Sheriff's Department. It has been referred to by one researcher as the 'gun that made the twenties '.
In 1926, the Cutts Compensator (a ) was offered as an option for the M1921; Thompsons with the compensator were cataloged as No. 21AC at the original price of $200.00, with the plain M1921 designated No.
21A at a reduced price of $175.00. In 1928, Federal Laboratories took over the distribution of the weapon from Thompson's Auto Ordnance Corporation. The cost at this time was $225 per weapon (equivalent to $3,207 in 2017), with $5 per 50-round drum and $3 for 20-round magazine.
Acquired a quantity for use against Japanese land forces, and eventually began producing copies of the Thompson in small quantities for use by its armies and militias. In the 1930s, produced copies of the Thompson for, the warlord of province. The first acquired Thompsons in 1933 following the. World War II. A British soldier equipped with a Thompson M1928 submachine gun , November 25, 1940 In 1938, the Thompson submachine gun was adopted by the, serving during World War II and beyond. There were two military types of Thompson SMG.
The M1928A1 had provisions for box and drum magazines. It had a Cutts, cooling fins on the, employed a delayed blowback action and its charging handle was on the top of the receiver. The M1 and M1A1 had a barrel without cooling fins, a simplified rear sight, provisions only for box magazines, employed a straight blowback action and the charging handle was on the side of the receiver.
Over 1.5 million military Thompson submachine guns were produced during World War II. Magazine developments. Drum and box magazines Military users of the M1928A1 had complaints about the 'L' fifty-round drum magazine; the British Army officially criticised 'their excessive weight, the rattling sound they made' and shipped thousands back to the U.S. In exchange for box magazines.
The Thompson had to be cocked, bolt retracted ready to fire, to attach the drum. It attached and detached by sliding sideways, which made magazine changes slow and also created difficulty in clearing a cartridge malfunction ('jam'). Reloading an empty drum with cartridges was an involved process.
In contrast, the 'XX' twenty-round box magazine was light and compact, it tended not to rattle, and could be inserted with the bolt safely closed. It was quickly attached and detached and was removed downward, making clearing jams easier. The box tripped the bolt open lock when empty, facilitating magazine changes. An empty box was easily reloaded with loose rounds. However, users complained it was limited in capacity. In the field, some soldiers taped two 'XX' magazines together in what would be known as to speed magazine changes.
Two alternatives to the 'L' drum and 'XX' box magazines were tested December 6, 1941, at Fort Knox: an extended thirty-round box magazine and a forty-round magazine made by welding two 20-round magazines face to face,. Testers considered both superior to either the 'XX' box or 'L' drum. The 30-round box was approved as standard in December 1941 to replace the 'XX' and 'L' magazines.
(The concept of welding two box magazines face-to-face was carried over with the submachine gun.). John Wisbur Bartlett Sr. Fires on a Japanese position using an M1 Thompson submachine gun during an in 1945. The Thompson was used in in the hands of troops as a weapon for scouts, (, and higher), and leaders, as well as commissioned officers, tank crewmen, and soldiers performing raids on German positions. In the European theater, the gun was widely utilized in and units, as well as in the and, where it was issued more frequently than in units because of its high rate of fire and its stopping power, which made it very effective in the kinds of close combat these troops were expected to undertake. Were fond of it, as were paratroopers, who 'borrowed' Thompsons from members of mortar squads for use on patrols behind enemy lines. The gun was prized by those lucky enough to get one and proved itself in the close street fighting that was encountered frequently during the invasion of France.
A Swedish variant of the M1928A1, the Kulsprutepistol m/40 (submachine gun, model 40), served in the between 1940 and 1951. Through, the also received the Thompson, but due to a shortage of appropriate ammunition, its use was not widespread.
German troops in Tunisia with a captured M1928A1 Thompson submachine gun In the, the and the, Lend-Lease issue Thompsons were used by the, and other forces. They used the Thompson extensively in patrols and, where it was prized for its firepower, though it was criticized for its hefty weight and poor reliability.
Difficulties in supply eventually led to its replacement in Australian Army units in 1943 by other submachine guns such as the and. The Thompsons were then given to the and. New Zealand commando forces initially used Thompsons but switched them for the more reliable, lighter, and more accurate Owen during the and campaigns. Marines also used the Thompson as a limited-issue weapon, especially during their later island assaults. The Thompson was soon found to have limited effect in heavy jungle cover, where the low-.45 bullet would not penetrate most small-diameter trees or protective armor vests. (In 1923, the Army had rejected the, which had twice the energy of the.45 ACP).
Army, many Pacific War jungle patrols were originally equipped with Thompsons in the early phases of the and campaigns, but soon began employing the in its place as a point defense weapon. The Army introduced the U.S.
Submachine guns in 1943 with plans to produce the latter in numbers sufficient to cancel future orders for the Thompson, while gradually withdrawing it from the first-line service. However, due to unforeseen production delays and requests for modifications, the M3/M3A1 never replaced the Thompson, and purchases continued until February 1944. At the end of World War II, the Thompson, with a total wartime production of over 1.5 million, outnumbered the M3/M3A1 submachine guns in service by nearly three to one.
After World War II. Two Israeli policemen, armed with Thompsons meet a Jordanian legionnaire near the c. 1950 Thompson submachine guns were used by both sides during the. Following the war, Thompsons were issued to members of Israel’s elite, upon the formation of that unit in 1953. During the, the Thompson was used by both sides. The, gendarmerie and police units were equipped with Thompson submachine guns supplied by the British and later in the war by the United States.
The opposing Communist fighters of the were also using Thompson submachine guns, either captured from government forces or inherited from. ELAS was the strongest of the resistance forces during the period of against the Germans and Italians and were supplied with arms from both the British and the United States. After the demobilization of ELAS, an unspecified number of arms were not surrendered to the government but kept hidden, and were later used by the Democratic Army of Greece. The Thompson also found service with the during their to retake their former colony of Indonesia. Captured examples were later used by Indonesian forces against Dutch forces.
KNIL soldier with an M1928A1 submachine gun, c. 1948 By the time of the, the Thompson had seen much use by the U.S. And South Korean military, even though Thompson had been replaced as standard issue by the M3/M3A1. With huge numbers of guns available in army ordnance arsenals, the Thompson remained classed as Limited Standard or Substitute Standard long after the standardization of the M3/M3A1.
Many Thompsons were distributed to Chinese armed forces as a military aid before the fall of 's government to 's forces in 1949 during the. During the Korean War, American troops were surprised to encounter Chinese Communist troops heavily armed with Thompsons, especially during surprise night assaults. The gun's ability to deliver large quantities of short-range automatic assault fire proved very useful in both defense and assault during the early part of the conflict. Many of these weapons were captured and placed into service with American soldiers and Marines for the balance of the war. During the, the Thompson submachine gun was used by some of Fidel Castro's guerrillas. During the, some units and defense were armed with Thompson submachine guns, and a few of these weapons were used by reconnaissance units, advisors, and other American troops. It was later replaced by the.
Not only did some U.S. Soldiers have use of them in Vietnam, but they encountered them as well.
The liked the weapon and used both captured models as well as manufacturing their own copies in small jungle workshops. The Australian government destroyed most of their Thompson machine carbines in the 1960s. They shipped their remaining stocks to arm the forces of 's in 1975. They were then captured and used by the.
In the conflict in, known as (1969–1998), the Thompson was again used by the Irish Republican paramilitaries. According to historian, 'The Thompson remained a key part of both the and arsenals until well into the 1970s when it was superseded by the and the.'
The Thompson was also used by U.S. And overseas law enforcement and police forces, most prominently by the. The FBI used Thompsons until they were declared obsolete and ordered destroyed in the early 1970s. Collector interest Because of their quality and craftsmanship, as well as their gangster-era and WWII connections, Thompsons are sought as collector's items. There were fewer than 40 pre-production prototypes. The Colt Patent Fire Arms Manufacturing Company in Hartford, Connecticut was contracted by the Auto-Ordnance Corporation to manufacture the initial mass production of 15,000 Thompson Submachine Guns in 1920.
An original Colt Model 1921 A or AC, Model 1927 A or AC, Model 1928 Navy A or AC, properly registered in working condition with original components can easily fetch from 25,000 to $45,000+ depending on condition and accessories. For WWII, approximately 1,700,000 Thompson Submachine Guns were produced by Auto-Ordnance and, with 1,387,134 being the simplified World War II M1 and M1A1 variants (without the Blish lock and oiling system ). A Model 1921A believed to have been owned by, but without historical documentation to substantiate this provenance, sold at auction on January 21, 2012, in Kansas City for $130,000. Features Operating characteristics. Thompson 1921, field stripped Early versions of the Thompson, the Model 1919, had a fairly high cyclic rate of fire, as high as 1,200 rounds per minute (rpm), with most Model 1921s at 800 rpm.
In 1927, the U.S. Navy ordered 500 Thompsons but requested a lower rate of fire. Thompson requested Payne develop a method of reducing the cyclic rate of fire. Payne replaced the actuator with a heavier one and the recoil spring with a stiffer one; the changes reduced the rate of fire from 800 to the 600 rpm of the U.S.
Navy Model 1928. Later M1 and M1A1 Thompsons averaged also 600 rpm. This rate of fire, combined with a rather heavy trigger pull and a stock with an excessive drop, increases the tendency for the barrel to climb off target in automatic fire. Compared to more modern submachine guns, the.45 Thompson is quite heavy, weighing roughly the same as the contemporary semi-automatic rifle, and requires lots of cleaning. This was one of the major complaints about the weapon by personnel to whom it was issued.
Thompson M1928A1, field stripped Although the drum magazine provided significant firepower, in military service it was found to be overly heavy and bulky, especially when slung on the shoulder while marching. The M1928A1 Thompson drum magazine was rather fragile, and cartridges tended to rattle inside it, producing unwanted noise. For these reasons, the 20-round and later 30-round box magazines soon proved most popular with military users of the M1928A1, and drum compatibility was not included in the design of the wartime M1 and M1A1 models. The Thompson was one of the earliest submachine guns to incorporate a double-column, double-feed box magazine design, which undoubtedly contributed to the gun's reputation for reliability. In addition, the gun performed better than most after exposure to rain, dirt, and mud.
The selective-fire (semi- or fully automatic) Thompson fires from the 'open bolt' position, in which the bolt is held fully to rearward by the sear when cocked. When the trigger is depressed, the bolt is released, traveling forward to chamber and simultaneously fire the first and subsequent rounds until either the trigger is released or the ammunition is exhausted.
This eliminates the risk of ', which can sometimes occur in closed-bolt automatic weapons. Disassembly The Thompson submachine gun varies in field strip procedure, depending on the variant.
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World War II-era M1 variants and RPB models field strip more easily than the M1921. The 1928 variant can be disassembled easily by first detaching the stock, then sliding off the lower receiver and then simply removing the internal parts, cleaning them, and then putting it back together. When opened up, the Thompson features a small number of parts that need to be removed including the spring, bolt, Blish Lock, and actuator bolt.
Variants. Thompson M1921 submachine gun with Argentine Halcon compensator Prototypes Persuader and Annihilator There were two main experimental models of the Thompson. The Persuader was a version developed in 1917/18. It was partially built, but never completely finished.
The Annihilator, serial no. 1 to 10, was similar in appearance to the later models, but without rear sight and butt stock mounts. The first were fed from a 20-round box magazine, later, the 50- and 100-round were developed. Model 1919 Starting with the Serial no. 11, the Model 1919 takes the final appearance of the later Thompsons with the rear sights and the butt stock. The Model 1919 was limited to about 40 units; the first built did not use the drums, as it was too difficult to fire.
Many variations have been noted within this model. The weapons had very high cyclic rates up to 1,500 rpm.
This was the weapon Brigadier General Thompson demonstrated at in 1920. A number of Model 1919s were made without butt stocks, rear- and front sights, but the final version closely resembled the later Model 1921. This model was designed to 'sweep' trenches with bullets.
The was the largest purchaser of the M1919. Some experimental calibers aside the (11.4x23mm) were the, and.351 WSL variant Only one prototype was made in using a standard 20' barrel and an ROF of 1000rpm.
Thompson.30 Carbine The layout and ergonomics of the Thompson submachine gun were also considered for the role of a Light Rifle before the adoption of the. It was based on the M1921/27 variants. However, it was turned down without testing due to logistic problems.30-06 variant A.30-06 variant was intended as a rival to the M1918 BAR. It had an extended receiver with a recoil buffer and fed from 20 round magazines.
Production Model 1921. (top, upright) and SMG Model (bottom, inverted) of 1921 The Model 1921 (M1921) was the first major production model. Fifteen thousand were produced by Colt for Auto-Ordnance. In its original design, it was finished more like a sporting weapon, with an adjustable rear sight, a blued, finned barrel and vertical (or pistol grip) and the Blish lock. The M1921 was quite expensive to manufacture, with the original retail price around $200, because of its high-quality wood furniture and finely parts. The M1921 was famous throughout its career with police and criminals and in motion pictures. This model gained fame from its use by criminals during Prohibition, and was nicknamed 'tommy gun' by the media.
Model 1923 The Model 1923 was a heavy submachine gun introduced to potentially expand the Auto-Ordnance product line and was demonstrated for the. It fired the more powerful which fired a heavier 250 (0.57; 16 ) bullet at muzzle velocities of about 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s) and energy about 1,170 (1,590 ), with greater range than the.45 ACP.
It introduced a horizontal, improved inline stock for accuracy, 14 in (36 cm) barrel, and lug. The M1923 was intended to rival the (BAR), with which the Army was already satisfied.
The Army did not give the Model 1923 much consideration, so it was not adopted. Model 1921AC (1926) While not a new model in the usual sense of incorporating major changes, in 1926 the Cutts Compensator (a ) was offered as an option for the M1921; Thompsons with the compensator were cataloged as No. 21AC at the original price of $200.00, with the plain M1921 designated No. 21A at a reduced price of $175.00.
The Model 1921 was thereafter referred to as Model 1921A or Model 1921AC, though some collectors still refer to it as the Model 1921. Model 1928 The Model 1928 was the first type widely used by military forces, with the U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps as major buyers through the 1930s.
The original Model 1928s were Model 1921s with weight added to the actuator, which slowed down the of fire, a United States Navy requirement. On these guns, the model number '1921' on the receiver was updated by stamping an '8' over the last '1'. The Navy Model 1928 has several names among collectors: the 'Colt Overstamp', '1921 Overstamp', '28 Navy', or just '28N'.
The 1928 Thompson would be the last small arm adopted by the U.S. Army that used a year designation in the official nomenclature. With the start of World War II, major contracts from several countries saved the manufacturer from. A notable variant of the Model 1928 with an aluminum receiver and tenite grip, buttstock, and forend, was made by Savage. M1928A1 at, June 1942 The M1928A1 variant entered mass production before the, as on-hand stocks ran out. Changes included a horizontal forend, in place of the distinctive vertical foregrip ('), and a provision for a military. Despite new U.S.
Contracts for Lend-Lease shipments abroad to China, France, and the United Kingdom, as well as the needs of American armed forces, only two factories supplied M1928A1 Thompsons during the early years of World War II. Though it could use both the 50-round drum and the 20- or 30-round box magazines, active service showed the drums were more prone to jamming, rattled when moving, and were too heavy and bulky on long patrols. 562,511 were made. Wartime production variants had a fixed rear sight without the triangular sight guard wings and a non-ribbed barrel, both like those found on the M1/M1A1. In addition, the Soviet Union received M1928A1s, included as standard equipment with the obtained through Lend-Lease. The weapons were never issued to the Red Army because of a lack of.45 ACP ammunition on the Eastern Front; they were simply put in storage, although a picture exists of what appears to be Thompsons being used by Russian M3 Stuart crews in the Caucasus.
As of September 2006, limited numbers of these weapons have been re-imported from Russia to the United States as disassembled 'spare parts kits', comprising the entire weapon less the receiver (as required by Federal law). An M1928A1 which also came with an unusual inline stock, modified with elevated sights to increase accuracy also existed. Service variants. This section needs additional citations for. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
(February 2016) Thompson Machine Carbine (TMC) In 1940 Commonwealth troops in Egypt and North Africa were issued commercial model Lend-Lease Colt- and Savage-manufactured M1928s. Section leaders carried them instead of pistols or rifles. Many of the Colt models had French-language manuals packed with them as they had been abruptly diverted to England after the fall of France. They soon discovered that the weapon was prone to jamming due to sand. To fix this, the armorers removed the Blish Lock and replaced it with a hex bolt to keep the cocking handle and bolt together. The 20-round Type XX magazines had their peep-holes welded shut to keep sand out and the 50-round Type L drums were discontinued. Ammunition was scarce as it was either in small lots of Lend-Lease commercial ammo or obtained from adjacent American troops.
It was later replaced by the and. The Japanese captured enough Thompson M1928 SMGs and ammunition when they captured Hong Kong and Malaysia that it became a limited standard weapon. It surpassed any similar weapons currently in their service. Ammunition was usually in US 42-round Lend-Lease commercial cartons or Australian 28-round military cartons captured from the Commonwealth forces that was sampled, tested, and resealed with Japanese arsenal stickers. Models used in the Pacific by Australian troops had their sling swivels remounted on the left side to allow it to be fired more easily while prone. A metal sling mount was fitted to the left side of the wooden buttstock. Ammunition was manufactured in Australia or obtained from adjacent American troops.
It was later replaced by the. Fire Controls M1 Thompson Front lever is selector switch set for full auto Responding to a request for further simplification, the M1 was standardized in April 1942 as the United States Submachine Gun, Cal.45, M1. Rate of fire was reduced to approximately 600-700 rpm. First issued in 1943, the M1 uses a simple operation, with the charging handle moved to the side. The flip-up adjustable Lyman rear sight was replaced with a fixed L sight.
Late M1s had triangular guard wings added to the rear L sight, which were standardized on the M1A1. The slots adjoining the magazine well allowing the use of a drum magazine were removed. A new magazine catch with the provision for retaining drum magazines removed, was produced, but most M1s and later M1A1s retained the original. The less expensive and more-easily manufactured 'stick' magazines were used exclusively in the M1, with a new 30-round version joining the familiar 20-round type. The Cutts, barrel cooling fins, and Blish lock were omitted while the was permanently affixed. Late production M1 stocks were fitted with reinforcing bolts and washers to prevent splitting of the stock where it attached to the receiver. The British had used improvised bolts or wood screws to reinforce M1928 stocks.
The M1 reinforcing bolt and washer were carried over to the M1A1 and retrofitted to many of the M1928A1s in U.S. And British service. Late M1s also had simplified fire control switches, also carried over to the M1A1. Both sides of the Thompson M1A1 shown with 30-round magazine The M1A1, standardized in October 1942 as the United States Submachine Gun, Cal.45, M1A1, could be produced in half the time of the M1928A1, and at a much lower cost. The main difference between the M1 and M1A1 was the bolt. The M1 bolt had a floating firing pin and hammer, the bolt of the M1A1 had the firing pin machined to the face of the bolt, eliminating unnecessary parts.
The reinforced stock and protective sight wings were standard. The 30-round magazine became more common.
Auto Ordnance Thompson M1a1
In 1939, Thompsons cost the government $209 apiece. By the spring of 1942, cost-reduction design changes had brought this down to $70. In February 1944, the M1A1 reached a low price of $45 each, including accessories and spare parts, although the difference in price between the M1 and M1A1 was only $0.06. By the end of the war, the M1A1 was replaced with the even lower-cost (commonly called the 'Grease Gun'). Semi-automatic Model 1927 The Model 1927 was the open bolt semi-automatic-only version of the M1921. It was made by modifying an existing Model 1921, including replacing certain parts.
The 'Thompson Submachine Gun' inscription was machined over to replace it with 'Thompson Semi-Automatic Carbine', and the 'Model 1921' inscription was also machined over to replace it with 'Model 1927.' Although the Model 1927 was semi-automatic only, it was easily converted to fully automatic by installing a full-auto Model 1921 fire control group (internal parts). Most Model 1927s owned by police have been converted back to full-auto.
The original Model 1927 is classified as a machine gun under the of 1934 (a) by being 'readily convertible' by swapping parts and (b) by a making all open bolt semi-automatic firearms manufactured after the date of this ruling classified as machine guns. Model 1927A1 The Model 1927A1 is a semi-automatic only replica version of the Thompson, originally produced by Auto-Ordnance of, New York for the civilian collector's market from 1974 to 1999. It has been produced since 1999 by Kahr Arms of,. It is officially known as the 'Thompson Semi-Automatic Carbine, Model of 1927A1.'
The internal design is completely different to operate from the closed bolt and the carbine has barrel length of 16.5 in (420 mm) (versus open bolt operation and barrel length of 10.5 in (270 mm) for the full automatic versions). Under federal regulations, these changes make the Model 1927A1 legally a rifle and remove it from the federal registry requirements of the. These modern versions should not be confused with the original semi-automatic M1927, which was a slightly modified M1921 produced by Colt for Auto-Ordnance. The Model 1927A1 is the semi-automatic replica of the Thompson Models of 1921 and 1927. The 'Thompson Commando' is a semi-automatic replica of the M1928A1. The Auto-Ordnance replica of the Thompson M1 and M1A1 is known as the TM1, and may be found marked 'Thompson Semi-Automatic Carbine, Caliber.45M1'.
Model 1927A3 The Model 1927A3 is a semi-automatic,.22 caliber version of the Thompson produced by Auto-Ordnance in West Hurley. Model 1927A5 The Model 1927A5 is a semi-automatic pistol version,.45 ACP version of the Thompson originally produced by Auto-Ordnance in West Hurley. It featured an aluminum receiver to reduce weight. It has been produced since 2008 by Kahr Arms of Worcester, Massachusetts as the 'M1927A1 TA5'. As of changes to Federal Law (prior to 2011), the 1927A5.45 ACP Pistol is now simply classified as a 'Firearm' or 'Any Other Weapon (AOW) as it neither fits the neither the definition of a Pistol or Rifle under current law. Auto-Ordnance 1927A5 DOJ BATFE Firearm Classification Letter 1928A1 LTD The 1928A1 LTD is a civilian semi-automatic-only clone with fixed stock, produced by Luxembourg Defense Technology in Luxembourg.
Export variants BSA Thompsons In an attempt to expand interest and sales overseas, Auto-Ordnance entered into a partnership with and licensed the (BSA) in England to produce a European model. These were produced in small quantities and have a different appearance than the classic style. The BSA 1926 was manufactured in 9mmP and and were tested by various governments, including France, in the mid-1920s.
It was never adopted by any military force, and only a small number were produced. RPB Thompsons Special purpose variant A special purpose machine pistol variant of the Thompson is manufactured by RPB Industries of Atlanta. Suppressed variant A version with a threaded barrel for suppressors, side folding stock, and modified sights. Civilian ownership Canada All variants and modified versions of Thompson Submachine Guns (even semiautomatic-only versions) are prohibited by name in Canada, as part of Prohibited Weapons Order No. Consequently, they cannot be legally imported or owned except under very limited circumstances. For example, to own one the person must be ' and have owned one before the bill was passed against it.
The submachine gun is not grandfathered like in USA, only the owner. The submachine gun can only be sold to other grandfathered individuals, this keep prices extremely low as the number of prohibited licensed individuals is very small and dwindling with time. Eventually, all prohibited guns will be confiscated.: Part 1.86 United States. Firing the 1921 Thompson The perceived popularity of submachine guns such as the Thompson with violent gangsters in the 1920s and 1930s was one of the main reasons given for passage of the by the in 1934.
One of its provisions was that owners of fully automatic firearms were required to register them with the predecessor agency of the modern (ATF). The law also placed restrictions on the possession, transfer, and transport of the weapons. There are several U.S. Made and variants, copies, or replicas. The semi-automatic versions are less regulated by federal law.
United Kingdom The possession of any fully automatic firearm is prohibited in the UK by the; prohibited firearms can be possessed on a section 5 certificate, but these are not issued to civilians. A fully automatic firearm that has been converted to semi-automatic fire, such as the Model 1927, is prohibited by the, as is any centre-fire purpose-made semi-automatic weapon, such as the Model 1927A1. It is now effectively impossible for a firearm of this type to be legally possessed by a member of the general public, except in certified deactivated condition.
The Thompson Submachine Gun ID Guide, Part V: The Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport U.S. 1928A1 Thompson Submachine Gun By Frank Iannamico During WWII there was an overwhelming demand for the Thompson Submachine Gun, to supply both U.S. And Allied armies. In 1939, Savage Arms was contracted by Auto-Ordnance to manufacture the weapon. Due to the complex construction of the Thompson, Savage had a difficult time keeping up with the ever-increasing demand.
As a result, the Auto-Ordnance Corporation opened their own factory in 1941 to help fill the Ordnance Department’s requirements for the weapon. The 1928A1 Thompson Submachine Guns being produced at Auto-Ordnance’s Bridgeport plant were identical mechanically and in appearance to those being made by Savage in Utica, New York.
The letters AO preceding the weapon’s serial number on the left side of the M1928A1 model’s receiver will easily identify an M1928A1 Thompson that was produced in the Auto-Ordnance’s Bridgeport, Connecticut plant. A similar AO prefix serial number was applied to the rear of the trigger frame. The early manufacture Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport guns, like their Savage counterparts, were fitted with the finned barrel and the adjustable Lyman rear sight. There were many Savage and other subcontractor manufactured parts used to assemble the guns produced at the Auto-Ordnance plant. The parts that were manufactured in house by Auto-Ordnance were stamped with the letters AO or AOC.
As production continued the Auto-Ordnance Thompsons, like the Savage manufactured guns, also began to be fitted with the simple stamped fixed “L” style aperture rear sight. On the Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport produced Thompsons the “L” style rear sight began to appear on guns at approximately the 80,000 serial number range. However, there was no defining line where the use of the Lyman adjustable sight was discontinued, as they continued to appear sporadically throughout the entire range of serial numbers. In early production the finned barrel was still fitted on the Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport guns, but was eventually replaced by the easier to manufacture, smooth barrel that began to appear at the 85,000 serial number range.
As with the rear sights there was no defining line on the type of barrel that was installed on any particular serial number range on Auto-Ordnance Thompsons. Even after the smooth barrels began to be fitted, the finned style barrels continued to sporadically appear through the entire serial number range until the end of production.
Note; while the “L” sight and smooth barrel began to appear on mid-range serial number Savage 1928’s they appeared on lower numbered Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport guns. The reason is that the Savage factory began manufacturing the guns approximately eighteen months before Auto-Ordnance. Thus, a low numbered Auto-Ordnance 1928 model was manufactured at the same time period a mid-range number Savage gun. The Cutts compensator was retained on all military A-O 1928A1 models throughout production. Most of the Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport Thompsons were fitted with the late (4th) style compensator that has the Thompson bullet logo on the left side, and the Auto-Ordnance name roll marked across the top of the leading edge.
All M1928A1 model Thompsons made at the Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport plant were originally fitted with the horizontal style foregrips. The Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport plant was under the jurisdiction of the Springfield Ordnance District in 1941. Thompson Guns were inspected and proofed by on site Springfield ordnance inspectors. The initials of the chief executive officer of the respective Ordnance Districts, who were designated as Army Inspectors of Ordnance or AIOs, were stamped on the guns indicating that they accepted the weapons on behalf of the United States Government. Springfield District Chief executive officers during WWII Thompson production were; Waldemar Broberg and Lt. Colonel Guy H. Subordinate ordnance officers managed the inspection process, and all of the guns were actually inspected and stamped by personnel working under their respective chief inspectors.
The purpose of the government inspection was to insure that the material being manufactured was the type, quality and quantity specified in the government agreement with the provider. Great emphasis was placed on government contractors to perform their own quality inspections at their factories to avoid having material rejected by the government inspectors. This was done to avoid delays in badly needed materials and to avoid the expense of rejected goods. The quality fit and finish of the Auto-Ordnance produced guns was identical to those of Savage manufacture. Interchangeability of parts was 100% as per Ordnance Department directives. Model of M1928A1 parts manufactured by Auto-Ordnance’s factories or subcontractors and marked AOC were; Receivers, trigger frames, Blish locks, bolts, actuators, barrels, grip mounts, butt plates, sears, sear levers, trip levers, disconnectors, safety levers and pivot plates. Although the Remington Arms Company was subcontracted to manufacture many Thompson parts for Auto-Ordnance, in January of 1942, Auto-Ordnance acquired the machinery from Remington and moved it into their Bridgeport plant and began manufacturing the parts themselves.
These parts included the actuator, bolt, extractor, ejector and disconnector. An interesting variation of the Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport produced M1928A1 Thompson that has been observed, are those Thompsons that have had the U.S. Designation ground off and the A1 mark overstamped to read AC. Many of the guns documented had been refurbished, and fitted with the smooth barrels and the “L” style fixed rear sight. Many, but certainly not all, of these guns so altered were in the 150,000 to 152,000 serial number range. A letter X was added as a suffix on the serial numbers of many of these guns.
A few other examples of these “1928AC” Thompsons documented were fitted with the finned barrel and Lyman adjustable rear sight. A small number of these Thompsons had their original military horizontal foregrip replaced with the early style vertical foregrip. It is believed that these were guns that had been purchased from the government by the Auto-Ordnance Corporation and refurbished in order to be sold to law enforcement agencies after they were surplused. The Numrich Arms Corporation also removed U.S.
Markings from 1928 and 1928A1 model Thompsons they sold in the 1950’s. Interestingly, some of the AO “1928AC” overstamped Thompsons did not have Army Inspector of Ordnance (AIO) acceptance stamps on them, but were stamped with the Ordnance “wheel” acceptance mark. While other examples of these guns had no government inspector or acceptance stamps at all, suggesting that they were never inspected or accepted by the U.S. Perhaps these guns were contract overruns or assembled from parts that remained after the government contracts were filled.
However, no documentation could be located that could prove or disprove this theory. A Treasury Department IRS Form dated June 30, 1944 reveals that two Auto-Ordnance manufacture U.S. 1928A1 Thompsons with an X suffix added to the serial numbers were sold to a Massachusetts police department that year. Was ground off and the letter C over stamped on the 1 on both of the guns.
Please note that the war didn’t end until the 15th of August 1945. All of the 1928 “AC” guns documented were originally manufactured by the Auto-Ordnance Corporation’s Bridgeport factory, and in almost every case had an AO prefixed serial numbered frame, although most of the frame/receiver numbers were mis-matched. The serial numbers located on the frames of these weapons also had the letter X added to them. Although most of the Bridgeport manufactured Thompsons documented had the very common mismatched receiver and frame numbers, I found it interesting that in almost every case of an Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport mismatched gun, the frames were also of Auto-Ordnance manufacture. Even though the Savage frames are completely interchangeable, few Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport guns were observed with Savage trigger frames. The only two serialized parts on wartime Thompsons were the receiver and the trigger frame.
The only reason for this was that when the Thompsons were manufactured the lower frames and receivers were hand fitted to each other to insure a close fit between the two parts. It was purely for cosmetic purposes, and had no bearing on the reliability or functioning of the weapon. As per standard Ordnance Department procedures when there was more than one contractor manufacturing the same weapon, there were separate blocks of serial numbers assigned to each contractor.
This was done so that no two weapons would be produced with the same serial number. However, during the military run there were some numbers duplicated, and a few more that were only one or two numbers different, the only difference being the letter S or AO preceding the serial number.
Auto loot hack rf online classes. Even though there were serial numbers that were close or duplicated on Savage and Auto-Ordnance guns, the dates that those Thompsons had actually been manufactured were quite different. By the time Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport had produced their very first M1928A1 gun, Savage had shipped well over 200,000 1928 and M1928A1 model Thompsons.
Other major variations of the Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport manufactured gun were the same as the Savage models. Finned barrel, Lyman adjustable rear sight. Finned barrel, “L” style rear aperture sight. Smooth barrel, “L” type rear sight. The Auto-Ordnance Corporation manufactured several experimental prototypes of the Thompson in an attempt to get more life out of the original design. There were 1928 model variations chambered for the U.S. 30’06 caliber, as well as a few prototypes made chambered for.30 carbine cartridge.
The rifle cartridges proved to be too powerful for the Thompson’s Blish lock delayed blow-back system. On 25 April 1942, the M1928A1 Thompson was reclassified as “Limited Standard”. The M1928A1 weapons were to be replaced in service by the new M1 version of the Thompson and the M3 submachine gun that was under development by the Ordnance Department and the Guide Lamp Division of General Motors. Due to unforeseen problems the M1928A1 model continued to be manufactured until the autumn of 1942.
Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport manufactured their last U.S. M1928A1 model on 15 October 1942. Thereafter they concentrated on producing the M1 and M1A1 model. Government documents show that the Bridgeport factory manufactured a total of 323,900 M1928A1 Thompsons. The grand total of 1928 and M1928A1 Thompson Submachine Guns manufactured during WWII, by both Savage and the Auto-Ordnance facilities was an estimated 1,070,832 from 1940 to the fall of 1942 when the M1928A1 model was superseded by the M1 version. The official end of the M1928A1 model came at an Ordnance Committee meeting held on 16 March 1944 item 23248; Memorandum for the Standards and Specification Section, Conservation Branch, Production Division, Army Service Forces.
It was noted for the record that; “U.S. Army specification 52-3-30 of Gun, Submachine, Thompson, Caliber.45 M1928A1 be canceled in accordance with paragraph 30, AR 850-25”. The request was approved.vThis article was condensed from relative information in the book AMERICAN THUNDER: The Military Thompson Submachine Gun, available from Moose Lake Publishing LLC. 207-683-2959 This article first appeared in Small Arms Review V5N6 (March 2002) and was posted online on February 28, 2014 Comments have not been generated for this article.
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